EP309: FFS Providers Getting Locked Out of Referral Flows, Right Now, As We Speak, With Jeff Hogan
February 11, 2021
309
31:51

EP309: FFS Providers Getting Locked Out of Referral Flows, Right Now, As We Speak, With Jeff Hogan

This episode is a tale of what happens when some employers decide to open up a few virtual front doors and when these virtual front doors lead only to referrals to providers who are willing to be accountable and offer financial predictability. That’s what these employers want, after all. They want accountability and financial predictability.

Many employers now have access to all claims databases and other data like the RAND 3.0 report. Therefore, employers can and are using this information in a big way to steer their plan member populations.

Given these goings-on, some slower-moving providers could easily find themselves on the outside looking in. So, who are those providers who are or will be getting shut out of referral flows? They’re definitely FFS-centric, but they could be a large health system, an urgent care center, or a hospital-owned PCP.

In this health care podcast, I speak with Jeff Hogan, the northeast regional manager for Rogers Benefit Group and also president of Upside Health Advisors. We talk in this episode not about what might be theoretically possible but about what is happening right now.

You can learn more at jhogan@rogersbenefit.com and connect with Jeff on LinkedIn.

Jeffrey Hogan is the northeast regional manager for Rogers Benefit Group, a national benefits marketing and consulting firm. Jeff has been with Rogers Benefit Group for 30 years. Additionally, Jeff operates a consulting firm, Upside Health Advisors, where he provides expert witness services on health care–related litigation, is a consultant to payers and large provider groups for product development and launch, and is a resource to employers desirous of implementing strategies to manage their health spend. Jeff is focused on health care payment reform, health policy, care coordination, value-based health care, health care quality, and precision medicine.

Jeff regularly appears on national forums focused on moving to value-based health care and is actively working to promote health care–related transparency measures in the market. He serves as the group’s liaison to the National Alliance of Healthcare Purchaser Coalitions. Jeff is the regional leader for The Leapfrog Group. He is also one of the coordinators of Connecticut’s Moving to Value Alliance.


01:43 What are self-insured employers doing right now to impact referral flows?
03:29 Are any virtual tech companies moving in on the local provider space?
07:46 “What we’re trying to do … is to help the member have the best outcome.”
10:32 “It’s a continuum, if you will.”
10:44 “There is a fairly significant gulf between providers … and, say, a COE [Center of Excellence].”
11:13 “What is value for employers coming out of COVID? Accountability and predictability.”
13:40 What are second-order effects?
14:29 “People like and want better access.”
14:46 “Fee-for-service providers fear the informed health care consumer.”
22:19 “Many of the brick-and-mortar providers are realizing that they have to up their game.”
24:52 “Things will change.”
25:07 “People not only want convenience, but they want safety, they want data.”
26:11 “We are at an inflection point … After 35 years in the business, I really finally feel like we’ve broken through.”
27:31 “This requires people to really think; it requires employers to actually know what their biggest problems are.”
29:53 “We can’t go back to the fragmentation of fee for service.”
30:25 “Data is critical.”

You can learn more at jhogan@rogersbenefit.com and connect with Jeff on LinkedIn.

healthcare,fee for service,ffs,health referrals,rogers benefit group,upside health advisors,
|

Episode Support Provided By

Special Thanks to Our 2026 Sustaining Monthly Donors

Kimberly CarlesonDylan YahnBenjamin LightMatt McQuideAnn KempskiSpencer AllenScott TromanhauserMarilyn BartlettSteven ElkinsMatthew Bunte.

Recent Episodes

EP505: The Death of the "What Is Value" Guessing Game for Clinical and Plan Decision-Makers Ready to Move On, With Ahilan Sivaganesan, MD
Relentless Health ValueApril 02, 2026
505
44:0240.31 MB

EP505: The Death of the "What Is Value" Guessing Game for Clinical and Plan Decision-Makers Ready to Move On, With Ahilan Sivaganesan, MD

Listen On Your Favorite App Hello, Relentless Tribe. Thank you so much for showing up today. All right … to start, let me lay out the goal of the episode today. This episode is for you if you are a self-funded employer looking to ensure your members are steered and tiered to real high-value care and...

EP504: A Back-to-Basics Roadmap Through the Perverse Incentives to Advanced Primary Care, With Ryan Jacobs
Relentless Health ValueMarch 26, 2026
504
33:3630.76 MB

EP504: A Back-to-Basics Roadmap Through the Perverse Incentives to Advanced Primary Care, With Ryan Jacobs

Listen On Your Favorite App It's been a while since we started from the beginning, so let's just take stock of the basics in this show, refresh ourselves if you're a longtime listener, or welcome if you're new around here. Today we are digging on and about what I would call the poster child for prov...

INBW46: Relentless Tribe Goings-On With Insights to Outwit the Hot Mess of the Non-Healthcare Market
Relentless Health ValueMarch 19, 202619:3717.96 MB

INBW46: Relentless Tribe Goings-On With Insights to Outwit the Hot Mess of the Non-Healthcare Market

Listen On Your Favorite App This inbetweenisode I wanna try something new for two reasons. One of them is that I need to check this episode off my to-do list because I am crushed for time. I'm going to be headed to Arizona tomorrow for the Collective Health Conference , which will have occurred thre...

EP503: Let's Go From Lazy PPO Networks to Smart Collaboration With Direct-to-Employer Specialty Care, With Ryan Wells; Leo Spector, MD, MBA; and Adam Stavisky
Relentless Health ValueMarch 12, 2026
503
46:1642.35 MB

EP503: Let's Go From Lazy PPO Networks to Smart Collaboration With Direct-to-Employer Specialty Care, With Ryan Wells; Leo Spector, MD, MBA; and Adam Stavisky

Listen On Your Favorite App Today we are digging into something I've said probably way too often: Collaboration is the next breakthrough innovation. And I'm doubling down on this because in the current healthcare landscape, two parties that actually should be talking—like burning up the phone wires ...

EP502: How Some Pretty Wild Medicare Fraud Sabotages ACOs and Also Independent Practices and Could Cost Plan Sponsors Such as Self-insured Employers a Lot of Zeros Downstream, With Brian Machut
Relentless Health ValueMarch 05, 2026
502
38:5835.67 MB

EP502: How Some Pretty Wild Medicare Fraud Sabotages ACOs and Also Independent Practices and Could Cost Plan Sponsors Such as Self-insured Employers a Lot of Zeros Downstream, With Brian Machut

You know, I always kind of wondered what the hackers were doing with all of the medical data that they've managed to get their mitts on over the past, I don't know, however many years. Now, I know at least one thing. If you're a hacker, you can use your stolen medical data to not actually send wildl...

EP501: Speaking of Infusions, Do You Want to Pay $135 or Do You Want to Pay $13,560 for the Exact Same Drug? With Ivana Krajcinovic, PhD
Relentless Health ValueFebruary 26, 2026
501
39:5736.57 MB

EP501: Speaking of Infusions, Do You Want to Pay $135 or Do You Want to Pay $13,560 for the Exact Same Drug? With Ivana Krajcinovic, PhD

Let us chat about today the inches all around us and also about how there is no market in healthcare all at once in this show. Today I am talking with Ivana Krajcinovic. And let me give you some examples of the inches. Two members of a plan get infusions at a hospital. And if these two members had g...

Take Two: EP398: Why Are Commercial Carrier Marketplaces Completely Boring? Maybe Because There Isn't a Marketplace, With Jacob Asher, MD
Relentless Health ValueFebruary 19, 202634:5231.91 MB

Take Two: EP398: Why Are Commercial Carrier Marketplaces Completely Boring? Maybe Because There Isn't a Marketplace, With Jacob Asher, MD

We have been doing a little series called "The Inches Are All Around Us," digging out waste in the $5.6 trillion healthcare sector where half an inch of waste can equal billions of dollars. I'm going to right now introduce another series that is complementary but has a slightly different focus. And ...

Listen and Follow

Sponsored by Aventria Health Group
©2026 BD Bridges LLC. All Rights Reserved.