EP309: FFS Providers Getting Locked Out of Referral Flows, Right Now, As We Speak, With Jeff Hogan
February 11, 2021
309
31:51

EP309: FFS Providers Getting Locked Out of Referral Flows, Right Now, As We Speak, With Jeff Hogan

This episode is a tale of what happens when some employers decide to open up a few virtual front doors and when these virtual front doors lead only to referrals to providers who are willing to be accountable and offer financial predictability. That’s what these employers want, after all. They want accountability and financial predictability.

Many employers now have access to all claims databases and other data like the RAND 3.0 report. Therefore, employers can and are using this information in a big way to steer their plan member populations.

Given these goings-on, some slower-moving providers could easily find themselves on the outside looking in. So, who are those providers who are or will be getting shut out of referral flows? They’re definitely FFS-centric, but they could be a large health system, an urgent care center, or a hospital-owned PCP.

In this health care podcast, I speak with Jeff Hogan, the northeast regional manager for Rogers Benefit Group and also president of Upside Health Advisors. We talk in this episode not about what might be theoretically possible but about what is happening right now.

You can learn more at jhogan@rogersbenefit.com and connect with Jeff on LinkedIn.

Jeffrey Hogan is the northeast regional manager for Rogers Benefit Group, a national benefits marketing and consulting firm. Jeff has been with Rogers Benefit Group for 30 years. Additionally, Jeff operates a consulting firm, Upside Health Advisors, where he provides expert witness services on health care–related litigation, is a consultant to payers and large provider groups for product development and launch, and is a resource to employers desirous of implementing strategies to manage their health spend. Jeff is focused on health care payment reform, health policy, care coordination, value-based health care, health care quality, and precision medicine.

Jeff regularly appears on national forums focused on moving to value-based health care and is actively working to promote health care–related transparency measures in the market. He serves as the group’s liaison to the National Alliance of Healthcare Purchaser Coalitions. Jeff is the regional leader for The Leapfrog Group. He is also one of the coordinators of Connecticut’s Moving to Value Alliance.


01:43 What are self-insured employers doing right now to impact referral flows?
03:29 Are any virtual tech companies moving in on the local provider space?
07:46 “What we’re trying to do … is to help the member have the best outcome.”
10:32 “It’s a continuum, if you will.”
10:44 “There is a fairly significant gulf between providers … and, say, a COE [Center of Excellence].”
11:13 “What is value for employers coming out of COVID? Accountability and predictability.”
13:40 What are second-order effects?
14:29 “People like and want better access.”
14:46 “Fee-for-service providers fear the informed health care consumer.”
22:19 “Many of the brick-and-mortar providers are realizing that they have to up their game.”
24:52 “Things will change.”
25:07 “People not only want convenience, but they want safety, they want data.”
26:11 “We are at an inflection point … After 35 years in the business, I really finally feel like we’ve broken through.”
27:31 “This requires people to really think; it requires employers to actually know what their biggest problems are.”
29:53 “We can’t go back to the fragmentation of fee for service.”
30:25 “Data is critical.”

You can learn more at jhogan@rogersbenefit.com and connect with Jeff on LinkedIn.

healthcare,fee for service,ffs,health referrals,rogers benefit group,upside health advisors,
|
|

Episode Support Provided By

Special Thanks to Our 2026 Sustaining Monthly Donors

Marilyn Bartlett, Kimberly Carleson, Dylan Yahn, Benjamin Light, Matt McQuide, Ann Kempski, Spencer Allen, Scott Tromanhauser, 
Steven Elkins, Matthew Bunte, and Lori Smith.

Recent Episodes

EP531: Slaying the Three-Headed Monster of Health Plan Networks, With Evan Anderson
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 30, 2026
531
38:0634.88 MB

EP531: Slaying the Three-Headed Monster of Health Plan Networks, With Evan Anderson

Listen on Your Favorite App Today, Evan Anderson and I are talking about carrier networks, how they started, how it's going. Because irrespective of whatever the plan was at the very beginning, any given network, especially talking about the big status quo networks, has evolved into what I'll call a...

EP530: A Wildly Underappreciated Point: Overpaying for Infusions Means Overpaying for Stop-Loss Coverage, With Jake Velie and Keith Hartman, RPh
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 23, 2026
530
37:4534.56 MB

EP530: A Wildly Underappreciated Point: Overpaying for Infusions Means Overpaying for Stop-Loss Coverage, With Jake Velie and Keith Hartman, RPh

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Thanks for hanging with me this week. When a self-insured plan sponsor sees an infusion claim hit their high-cost case report, and a lot of these infusions are really expensive, so many of them hit the high-cost claim report. For a...

EP529: How Stark Law, Stipends, and Noncompetes Drive Hospital Consolidation, With Eric Bricker, MD
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 16, 2026
529
39:2936.14 MB

EP529: How Stark Law, Stipends, and Noncompetes Drive Hospital Consolidation, With Eric Bricker, MD

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Hey, thanks for being here with me every week, some of you every single Thursday. Give yourself a little round of applause, maybe silently and in your own head, depending on where you are. But yeah, you matter. You being here matte...

EP528: The Current State of Primary Care—Inevitable or Fixable? Will It Be Private Equity to the Rescue? With Yashaswini Singh, PhD
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 09, 2026
528
38:4935.53 MB

EP528: The Current State of Primary Care—Inevitable or Fixable? Will It Be Private Equity to the Rescue? With Yashaswini Singh, PhD

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Here's the backstory for this episode. Remember episode 519 with Lisa Rosenbaum, MD, where we played a high-stakes kind of game show called "Is the Current State of Primary Care an Absolute Inevitability, or Is It a Needless, Subop...

EP526: Generic Compliance Ratios, Pass-Through Contracts, and Other Pharmacy Plumbing, With Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl
Relentless Health ValueAugust 26, 2026
526
20:1119.06 MB

EP526: Generic Compliance Ratios, Pass-Through Contracts, and Other Pharmacy Plumbing, With Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. If you have listened to this show for any length of time, you know one of our favorite truths around here, which is where there's mystery, there's margin. But today, we aren't just here to point out the mystery. We're here to look ...

EP525: PMPM vs FFS—The Perverse Incentives Plan Sponsors Sometimes Miss, With Cristin Dickerson, MD
Relentless Health ValueAugust 19, 2026
525
16:3315.14 MB

EP525: PMPM vs FFS—The Perverse Incentives Plan Sponsors Sometimes Miss, With Cristin Dickerson, MD

Listen on Your Favorite App So, this one's gonna be a little bit different. Back last year, I sat down with Dr. Cristin Dickerson. She is the founding partner of Green Imaging , which is a physician-led radiology network doing direct contracting for imaging. And we talked about how imaging can run 6...

EP524: Beating Provider Network Pricing Games by Thinking About Buying Healthcare Like a Manufacturer Supply Chain, With John Quinn
Relentless Health ValueAugust 12, 2026
524
17:0215.59 MB

EP524: Beating Provider Network Pricing Games by Thinking About Buying Healthcare Like a Manufacturer Supply Chain, With John Quinn

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. First off here, I would like to thank Casey Cormier for the really nice recurring donation. Thank you so much, Casey Cormier from  Stratis Group . Lately, traditional provider networks are increasingly being called into questi...

Listen and Follow

Sponsored by Aventria Health Group
©2026 BD Bridges LLC. All Rights Reserved.