EP220: Episodes of Care Payments: A Lower-Risk Way to Take On Risk, With François de Brantes of Remedy Partners
March 21, 2019
220
28:17

EP220: Episodes of Care Payments: A Lower-Risk Way to Take On Risk, With François de Brantes of Remedy Partners

Today we’re talking episodes of care payment models, otherwise known as bundled payments. Just to catch you up if you’re unfamiliar, this type of payment model means that a health care provider packaging together all the services needed during an episode and charges a guaranteed price for guaranteed quality of care.

If we’re talking about government payments, about 50% of, for example, knee surgeries are paid for right now in an episode of care fashion. In the private pay landscape, that number is lower but growing.

Bundles have advantages to purchasers (ie, employers or taxpayers who are the ultimate payers) because it’s possible to predict and compare the target price they’ll pay. But it’s also important for consumers who are partial payers in most cases. Bundles make health care prices transparent in a way that fee for service (FFS) can never manage.

Today I speak with François de Brantes, senior vice president at Remedy Partners and a noted expert in episodes of care and bundled payment initiatives. François also actively supported the launch of the Leapfrog Group, created Bridges to Excellence, and led the development and implementation of PROMETHEUS Payment.

You can learn more at remedypartners.com.

François de Brantes is senior vice president of commercial business development at Remedy Partners. He has spent nearly 20 years advocating for, and working to transform, the US health care system by improving incentives for providers and consumers to encourage value-based decisions. Prior to joining Remedy Partners, he was executive director of the Health Care Incentives Improvement Institute (HCI3), a not-for-profit company that designed programs to motivate physicians and hospitals to improve the quality and affordability of health care delivery. Early in his career at General Electric, he was involved in many strategic programs that rewarded providers for better performance. He has written extensively about the topic, including his 2013 book, The Incentive Cure: The Real Relief for Health Care.


02:04 The new Medicare Shared Savings Program (MSSP) and how it intersects in this conversation.
03:02 Why physicians need an advanced alternative payment model.
04:01 Why episode of care makes sense.
04:40 Why upside-only deals are not financially sustainable.
06:16 A manageable financial risk.
07:34 Taking on total cost of care and the small percentage of significant potential variability.
08:37 “The only way to avoid the almost-certain variability that is going to accrue on that half of 1% is if you have a lot of patients.”
09:12 The “danger zone” of Medicare beneficiaries.
11:55 “Either you’re in total cost of care, or it’s episodes.”
13:59 Quality of care vs bundled payments.
18:20 “Let’s not forget … that the reason why we’re doing … this … is because consumers, directly and indirectly, are paying the price.”
19:00 Dave Chase’s books and health care in the middle class.
19:42 The wealth of savings in post-acute care.
21:19 How to demonstrate the value you’re bringing to that episode of care.
21:47 Broad strokes of integrated delivery systems that provide value.
22:08 The next logical solution in integrated delivery systems and episode of care payment programs.
22:28 “They’re going to take on much more of the role of the care coordinator.”
23:43 “It’s not just the integrated systems; it’s really the physicians who … are taking responsibility for what happens.”
24:00 Michael Hunt and formalized, evidenced-based ways to evaluate post-acute facilities.
24:22 Remedy Partners and François’s role in episodes of care.

healthcare,remedy partners,care payment models,mssp,medicare shared savings program,quality of care vs bundled payments,
|
|

Episode Support Provided By

Special Thanks to Our 2026 Sustaining Monthly Donors

Marilyn Bartlett, Kimberly Carleson, Dylan Yahn, Benjamin Light, Matt McQuide, Ann Kempski, Spencer Allen, Scott Tromanhauser, 
Steven Elkins, Matthew Bunte, and Lori Smith.

Recent Episodes

EP531: Slaying the Three-Headed Monster of Health Plan Networks, With Evan Anderson
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 30, 2026
531
38:0634.88 MB

EP531: Slaying the Three-Headed Monster of Health Plan Networks, With Evan Anderson

Listen on Your Favorite App Today, Evan Anderson and I are talking about carrier networks, how they started, how it's going. Because irrespective of whatever the plan was at the very beginning, any given network, especially talking about the big status quo networks, has evolved into what I'll call a...

EP530: A Wildly Underappreciated Point: Overpaying for Infusions Means Overpaying for Stop-Loss Coverage, With Jake Velie and Keith Hartman, RPh
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 23, 2026
530
37:4534.56 MB

EP530: A Wildly Underappreciated Point: Overpaying for Infusions Means Overpaying for Stop-Loss Coverage, With Jake Velie and Keith Hartman, RPh

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Thanks for hanging with me this week. When a self-insured plan sponsor sees an infusion claim hit their high-cost case report, and a lot of these infusions are really expensive, so many of them hit the high-cost claim report. For a...

EP529: How Stark Law, Stipends, and Noncompetes Drive Hospital Consolidation, With Eric Bricker, MD
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 16, 2026
529
39:2936.14 MB

EP529: How Stark Law, Stipends, and Noncompetes Drive Hospital Consolidation, With Eric Bricker, MD

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Hey, thanks for being here with me every week, some of you every single Thursday. Give yourself a little round of applause, maybe silently and in your own head, depending on where you are. But yeah, you matter. You being here matte...

EP528: The Current State of Primary Care—Inevitable or Fixable? Will It Be Private Equity to the Rescue? With Yashaswini Singh, PhD
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 09, 2026
528
38:4935.53 MB

EP528: The Current State of Primary Care—Inevitable or Fixable? Will It Be Private Equity to the Rescue? With Yashaswini Singh, PhD

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Here's the backstory for this episode. Remember episode 519 with Lisa Rosenbaum, MD, where we played a high-stakes kind of game show called "Is the Current State of Primary Care an Absolute Inevitability, or Is It a Needless, Subop...

EP526: Generic Compliance Ratios, Pass-Through Contracts, and Other Pharmacy Plumbing, With Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl
Relentless Health ValueAugust 26, 2026
526
20:1119.06 MB

EP526: Generic Compliance Ratios, Pass-Through Contracts, and Other Pharmacy Plumbing, With Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. If you have listened to this show for any length of time, you know one of our favorite truths around here, which is where there's mystery, there's margin. But today, we aren't just here to point out the mystery. We're here to look ...

EP525: PMPM vs FFS—The Perverse Incentives Plan Sponsors Sometimes Miss, With Cristin Dickerson, MD
Relentless Health ValueAugust 19, 2026
525
16:3315.14 MB

EP525: PMPM vs FFS—The Perverse Incentives Plan Sponsors Sometimes Miss, With Cristin Dickerson, MD

Listen on Your Favorite App So, this one's gonna be a little bit different. Back last year, I sat down with Dr. Cristin Dickerson. She is the founding partner of Green Imaging , which is a physician-led radiology network doing direct contracting for imaging. And we talked about how imaging can run 6...

EP524: Beating Provider Network Pricing Games by Thinking About Buying Healthcare Like a Manufacturer Supply Chain, With John Quinn
Relentless Health ValueAugust 12, 2026
524
17:0215.59 MB

EP524: Beating Provider Network Pricing Games by Thinking About Buying Healthcare Like a Manufacturer Supply Chain, With John Quinn

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. First off here, I would like to thank Casey Cormier for the really nice recurring donation. Thank you so much, Casey Cormier from  Stratis Group . Lately, traditional provider networks are increasingly being called into questi...

Listen and Follow

Sponsored by Aventria Health Group
©2026 BD Bridges LLC. All Rights Reserved.