EP265: The What, the How, and the Questionable Why of Digital Therapeutic Formularies, With Randy Vogenberg, PhD
March 19, 2020
265
29:26

EP265: The What, the How, and the Questionable Why of Digital Therapeutic Formularies, With Randy Vogenberg, PhD

There is a lot going on with digital health tools these days. Which ones are the good ones and which ones are nothing burgers packaged up in beautiful marketing? That’s a good question, and it would be nice to have a go-to source for such information.

Some parties — mainly PBMs [pharmacy benefit managers] and to some extent payers and providers — recognize that this actually would be nice, and they see that creating digital formularies could be an opportunity to grow revenue for their shareholders by meeting a market need potentially and offering additional services to the marketplace. But the term formulary implies more than just some kind of health technology assessment. It implies, at least at some level, the promise of reimbursement.

But given how local health care tends to be, especially when considering patient populations and the “bottom-up” nature of the doctor-patient relationship, here’s the question I have for you: Is it even possible for a third party, disconnected from the care setting and the patient, to “top-down” select the technology which will be used and reimbursed … especially in the age of consumerism?

For more on the intersection of patients and provider digital tool selections, listen to episode 250 with Vicky Tiase from NewYork-Presbyterian. 

In this health care podcast, I am speaking with Randy Vogenberg, PhD. Randy suggests that a more crowdsourced approach to digital health tool selection might be in order here. He says that those who are using the tools really need to have a seat at the table. He says that possibly the “formulary” within any given organization should be more of a consensus among stakeholders and less of a mandate from on high.

But there are a lot of wrinkles … like, lots of wrinkles.

Randy Vogenberg is board chairperson at the Employer-Provider Interface Council. He is principal over at the Institute for Integrated Healthcare.

You can learn more at iih-online.com, epicouncil.org, and hope.rutgers.edu

Randy Vogenberg, PhD, is principal at the Institute for Integrated Healthcare, co-leader for the National Employer Initiative on Specialty Pharmacy, and cofounder of the National Institute of Collaborative Healthcare (NICH). He is a health care expert on health system delivery and economics as well as health-related solution innovation research. Most recently he partnered with the Hospital Quality Foundation in developing the Employer-Provider Interface Council (EPIC). His broad hospital and managed care expertise includes current or future trends around financing, market excellence, and benefit management or design.

A leader and highly requested speaker on applied health systems research, he has authored programs or books on self-funded health benefits, managed markets, hospitals, and integrated medical-pharmacy benefit management. His academic relationships include Rutgers HOPE Center and former senior fellow at the Jefferson School of Population Health. Currently, he is an adjunct professor at the University of Rhode Island College of Pharmacy and Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy as well as the University of Illinois College of Pharmacy.


02:51 What a digital formulary is.
03:52 PBMs and digital formularies.
04:41 The changing landscape of PBMs and digital health.
06:00 The intersection of PBMs and digital health tools.
10:18 “Arbitrage, full on.”—Mark Blum, from America’s Agenda.
12:21 The inherent differences between a health plan and a PBM.
15:58 The original purpose of a pharmacy/therapeutics committee.
16:58 “There’s a lot of change happening, is the bottom line.”
18:18 The risk assessment behind medical software.
18:29 Harm vs digital therapeutics and digital medicine.
18:52 Cybersecurity in digital therapeutics.
19:08 Reimbursement in digital therapeutics.
19:43 The question of “how” in reimbursement.
20:37 “How do we reset health care in just one state, let alone the whole country?”
22:13 Taxpayers, patients, and employers vs the health care industry.
22:56 The slow move away from fee for service, and why.
24:13 The timeline for incorporating digital tools into the health care system.
24:33 “It’s a real problem for the consumer side.”
25:09 “What’s really going to be worthy of reimbursement?”
25:50 “There’s only two major payers in the health care system … that’s the government, and it’s the private sector employers and state programs or unions.”

You can learn more at iih-online.com, epicouncil.org, and hope.rutgers.edu

healthcare,healthtech,digitalhealth,digital health tools,PBMS,national employer initiative on specialty pharmacy,national institute of collaborative healthcare,nich,digital formularies,
|
|

Episode Support Provided By

Special Thanks to Our 2026 Sustaining Monthly Donors

Marilyn Bartlett, Kimberly Carleson, Dylan Yahn, Benjamin Light, Matt McQuideAnn Kempski, Spencer Allen, Scott Tromanhauser, 
Steven Elkins, Matthew Bunte, and Lori Smith.

Recent Episodes

EP519: The Current State of Primary Care—Inevitable or Fixable? With Lisa Rosenbaum, MD
Relentless Health ValueJuly 08, 2026
519
40:0036.61 MB

EP519: The Current State of Primary Care—Inevitable or Fixable? With Lisa Rosenbaum, MD

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Today, let's start here. Right now, we are watching a very visible exodus of brilliant, consummate primary care (and other, honestly) physicians leaving traditional practice for concierge medicine or otherwise. For a full transcrip...

EP518: How Do You Explain the Difference Between an ASO Vendor and a TPA? With Claire Brockbank
Relentless Health ValueJuly 01, 2026
518
14:2513.2 MB

EP518: How Do You Explain the Difference Between an ASO Vendor and a TPA? With Claire Brockbank

Listen on Your Favorite App Dr. Alex Sommers: Hi. I'm Alex Sommers. I'm president of Astia Health, an advanced direct primary care organization, an emergency medicine and lifestyle medicine physician, as well as a licensed employer health plan advisor from Wisconsin. I'm curious how you explain the ...

EP517: The Business of Prior Auths: The 401-Level Financial Motive Behind Prior Auths
Relentless Health ValueJune 24, 2026
517
27:2325.07 MB

EP517: The Business of Prior Auths: The 401-Level Financial Motive Behind Prior Auths

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, Relentless Health Value Tribe. Welcome to it. So, yeah … last week, I had a great conversation with Ophelia Johnson ( EP516 ) that is a companion show, I would say, to this one. So, listen to that one first. Listen to this one first. You do you. For a full transcri...

EP516: GLP-1s and Cash Pay From the Pharma Manufacturer Point of View, With Ophelia Johnson
Relentless Health ValueJune 17, 202644:0540.35 MB

EP516: GLP-1s and Cash Pay From the Pharma Manufacturer Point of View, With Ophelia Johnson

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Welcome to it. Today we have a show that will bend your mind in new directions. And yes, I have a head cold at a very weird time of year. I have trouble apparently doing things like normal people. Anyway, we talk a lot on this podc...

EP515: SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility) Fraud—Or Is It Fraud? With Michelle Cera, PhD
Relentless Health ValueJune 10, 202643:0739.47 MB

EP515: SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility) Fraud—Or Is It Fraud? With Michelle Cera, PhD

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Lately, I have been just obsessed with what's hiding in plain sight: the root cause glitches in how American healthcare is built. Not the symptoms now. Not the noise. The actual ground zero. I mean, what we call healthcare in this ...

EP514: Successfully Suing a Health System for Their Anticompetitive Contracts and Also Collecting Damages for Plan Sponsors and Members, With Matt Cantor
Relentless Health ValueJune 03, 2026
514
43:4340.02 MB

EP514: Successfully Suing a Health System for Their Anticompetitive Contracts and Also Collecting Damages for Plan Sponsors and Members, With Matt Cantor

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. This is the third episode in our legal goings-on trifecta, starting with Doug Aldeen in episode 512 covering what amounts to the main reasons plan sponsors wind up suing their brokers or employee benefit consultants. For a full tra...

EP513: Revisiting Cunning Anticompetitive Hospital Contracts, With Brennan Bilberry

EP513: Revisiting Cunning Anticompetitive Hospital Contracts, With Brennan Bilberry

Listen on Your Favorite App If you are a large employer, union funds broker, fiduciary, or anyone responsible for a health plan that spends half of its dollars on hospital care (which most do), or if you have anything to do with policy or enforcement of policy, yeah … listen this week and next week....

Listen and Follow

Sponsored by Aventria Health Group
©2026 BD Bridges LLC. All Rights Reserved.