EP265: The What, the How, and the Questionable Why of Digital Therapeutic Formularies, With Randy Vogenberg, PhD
March 19, 2020
265
29:26

EP265: The What, the How, and the Questionable Why of Digital Therapeutic Formularies, With Randy Vogenberg, PhD

There is a lot going on with digital health tools these days. Which ones are the good ones and which ones are nothing burgers packaged up in beautiful marketing? That’s a good question, and it would be nice to have a go-to source for such information.

Some parties — mainly PBMs [pharmacy benefit managers] and to some extent payers and providers — recognize that this actually would be nice, and they see that creating digital formularies could be an opportunity to grow revenue for their shareholders by meeting a market need potentially and offering additional services to the marketplace. But the term formulary implies more than just some kind of health technology assessment. It implies, at least at some level, the promise of reimbursement.

But given how local health care tends to be, especially when considering patient populations and the “bottom-up” nature of the doctor-patient relationship, here’s the question I have for you: Is it even possible for a third party, disconnected from the care setting and the patient, to “top-down” select the technology which will be used and reimbursed … especially in the age of consumerism?

For more on the intersection of patients and provider digital tool selections, listen to episode 250 with Vicky Tiase from NewYork-Presbyterian. 

In this health care podcast, I am speaking with Randy Vogenberg, PhD. Randy suggests that a more crowdsourced approach to digital health tool selection might be in order here. He says that those who are using the tools really need to have a seat at the table. He says that possibly the “formulary” within any given organization should be more of a consensus among stakeholders and less of a mandate from on high.

But there are a lot of wrinkles … like, lots of wrinkles.

Randy Vogenberg is board chairperson at the Employer-Provider Interface Council. He is principal over at the Institute for Integrated Healthcare.

You can learn more at iih-online.com, epicouncil.org, and hope.rutgers.edu

Randy Vogenberg, PhD, is principal at the Institute for Integrated Healthcare, co-leader for the National Employer Initiative on Specialty Pharmacy, and cofounder of the National Institute of Collaborative Healthcare (NICH). He is a health care expert on health system delivery and economics as well as health-related solution innovation research. Most recently he partnered with the Hospital Quality Foundation in developing the Employer-Provider Interface Council (EPIC). His broad hospital and managed care expertise includes current or future trends around financing, market excellence, and benefit management or design.

A leader and highly requested speaker on applied health systems research, he has authored programs or books on self-funded health benefits, managed markets, hospitals, and integrated medical-pharmacy benefit management. His academic relationships include Rutgers HOPE Center and former senior fellow at the Jefferson School of Population Health. Currently, he is an adjunct professor at the University of Rhode Island College of Pharmacy and Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy as well as the University of Illinois College of Pharmacy.


02:51 What a digital formulary is.
03:52 PBMs and digital formularies.
04:41 The changing landscape of PBMs and digital health.
06:00 The intersection of PBMs and digital health tools.
10:18 “Arbitrage, full on.”—Mark Blum, from America’s Agenda.
12:21 The inherent differences between a health plan and a PBM.
15:58 The original purpose of a pharmacy/therapeutics committee.
16:58 “There’s a lot of change happening, is the bottom line.”
18:18 The risk assessment behind medical software.
18:29 Harm vs digital therapeutics and digital medicine.
18:52 Cybersecurity in digital therapeutics.
19:08 Reimbursement in digital therapeutics.
19:43 The question of “how” in reimbursement.
20:37 “How do we reset health care in just one state, let alone the whole country?”
22:13 Taxpayers, patients, and employers vs the health care industry.
22:56 The slow move away from fee for service, and why.
24:13 The timeline for incorporating digital tools into the health care system.
24:33 “It’s a real problem for the consumer side.”
25:09 “What’s really going to be worthy of reimbursement?”
25:50 “There’s only two major payers in the health care system … that’s the government, and it’s the private sector employers and state programs or unions.”

You can learn more at iih-online.com, epicouncil.org, and hope.rutgers.edu

healthcare,healthtech,digitalhealth,digital health tools,PBMS,national employer initiative on specialty pharmacy,national institute of collaborative healthcare,nich,digital formularies,
|

Episode Support Provided By

Special Thanks to Our 2026 Sustaining Monthly Donors

Kimberly CarlesonDylan YahnBenjamin LightMatt McQuideAnn KempskiSpencer AllenScott TromanhauserMarilyn BartlettSteven ElkinsMatthew Bunte.

Recent Episodes

EP505: The Death of the "What Is Value" Guessing Game for Clinical and Plan Decision-Makers Ready to Move On, With Ahilan Sivaganesan, MD
Relentless Health ValueApril 02, 2026
505
44:0240.31 MB

EP505: The Death of the "What Is Value" Guessing Game for Clinical and Plan Decision-Makers Ready to Move On, With Ahilan Sivaganesan, MD

Listen On Your Favorite App Hello, Relentless Tribe. Thank you so much for showing up today. All right … to start, let me lay out the goal of the episode today. This episode is for you if you are a self-funded employer looking to ensure your members are steered and tiered to real high-value care and...

EP504: A Back-to-Basics Roadmap Through the Perverse Incentives to Advanced Primary Care, With Ryan Jacobs
Relentless Health ValueMarch 26, 2026
504
33:3630.76 MB

EP504: A Back-to-Basics Roadmap Through the Perverse Incentives to Advanced Primary Care, With Ryan Jacobs

Listen On Your Favorite App It's been a while since we started from the beginning, so let's just take stock of the basics in this show, refresh ourselves if you're a longtime listener, or welcome if you're new around here. Today we are digging on and about what I would call the poster child for prov...

INBW46: Relentless Tribe Goings-On With Insights to Outwit the Hot Mess of the Non-Healthcare Market
Relentless Health ValueMarch 19, 202619:3717.96 MB

INBW46: Relentless Tribe Goings-On With Insights to Outwit the Hot Mess of the Non-Healthcare Market

Listen On Your Favorite App This inbetweenisode I wanna try something new for two reasons. One of them is that I need to check this episode off my to-do list because I am crushed for time. I'm going to be headed to Arizona tomorrow for the Collective Health Conference , which will have occurred thre...

EP503: Let's Go From Lazy PPO Networks to Smart Collaboration With Direct-to-Employer Specialty Care, With Ryan Wells; Leo Spector, MD, MBA; and Adam Stavisky
Relentless Health ValueMarch 12, 2026
503
46:1642.35 MB

EP503: Let's Go From Lazy PPO Networks to Smart Collaboration With Direct-to-Employer Specialty Care, With Ryan Wells; Leo Spector, MD, MBA; and Adam Stavisky

Listen On Your Favorite App Today we are digging into something I've said probably way too often: Collaboration is the next breakthrough innovation. And I'm doubling down on this because in the current healthcare landscape, two parties that actually should be talking—like burning up the phone wires ...

EP502: How Some Pretty Wild Medicare Fraud Sabotages ACOs and Also Independent Practices and Could Cost Plan Sponsors Such as Self-insured Employers a Lot of Zeros Downstream, With Brian Machut
Relentless Health ValueMarch 05, 2026
502
38:5835.67 MB

EP502: How Some Pretty Wild Medicare Fraud Sabotages ACOs and Also Independent Practices and Could Cost Plan Sponsors Such as Self-insured Employers a Lot of Zeros Downstream, With Brian Machut

You know, I always kind of wondered what the hackers were doing with all of the medical data that they've managed to get their mitts on over the past, I don't know, however many years. Now, I know at least one thing. If you're a hacker, you can use your stolen medical data to not actually send wildl...

EP501: Speaking of Infusions, Do You Want to Pay $135 or Do You Want to Pay $13,560 for the Exact Same Drug? With Ivana Krajcinovic, PhD
Relentless Health ValueFebruary 26, 2026
501
39:5736.57 MB

EP501: Speaking of Infusions, Do You Want to Pay $135 or Do You Want to Pay $13,560 for the Exact Same Drug? With Ivana Krajcinovic, PhD

Let us chat about today the inches all around us and also about how there is no market in healthcare all at once in this show. Today I am talking with Ivana Krajcinovic. And let me give you some examples of the inches. Two members of a plan get infusions at a hospital. And if these two members had g...

Take Two: EP398: Why Are Commercial Carrier Marketplaces Completely Boring? Maybe Because There Isn't a Marketplace, With Jacob Asher, MD
Relentless Health ValueFebruary 19, 202634:5231.91 MB

Take Two: EP398: Why Are Commercial Carrier Marketplaces Completely Boring? Maybe Because There Isn't a Marketplace, With Jacob Asher, MD

We have been doing a little series called "The Inches Are All Around Us," digging out waste in the $5.6 trillion healthcare sector where half an inch of waste can equal billions of dollars. I'm going to right now introduce another series that is complementary but has a slightly different focus. And ...

Listen and Follow

Sponsored by Aventria Health Group
©2026 BD Bridges LLC. All Rights Reserved.