EP216: Getting Rid of Drug Rebates, With Chris Sloan From Avalere Health
February 21, 2019
216
34:12

EP216: Getting Rid of Drug Rebates, With Chris Sloan From Avalere Health

Chris Sloan is an associate principal at Avalere Health, a Washington, DC–based nonpartisan consulting firm. He advises a number of clients—including pharmaceutical manufacturers, health plans, providers, and patient groups—on key policy issues facing the health care industry. His particular areas of expertise include drug pricing, the Affordable Care Act, generics, and biosimilars. Additionally, Chris is a recognized expert in the health care policy issues facing people living with HIV/AIDS and multiple sclerosis. Chris’s economic analyses of key policy proposals and issues, including drug pricing and the repeal and replace efforts around the Affordable Care Act, have been featured in a wide range of publications such as the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, Politico, Vox, and others. He has a BBA degree in economics and marketing from the College of William and Mary.


01:12 The HHS proposal.
02:29 “Rebates are a really big part of Medicaid Part D.”
02:45 What the “follow the dollar” looks like in this scenario.
04:10 How rebates between PBMs and manufacturers work, and how list prices play into this.
05:26 How this system can hurt the patient, and how this new proposal works to change that.
06:37 Pricing a product as a PBM.
08:04 The total dollar value of PBM rebates.
11:24 Do we know how much PBMs are making in incentives?
14:08 Are PBMs helping or hurting the process?
17:13 Why pharmaceutical managers may be more compelled to raise their prices thanks to large PBMs.
18:10 Perverse incentives in the system.
18:55 “At the end of the day, PBMs are still going to be employed by health plans.”
20:29 How a new model is combating the perverse incentive that raises prices for patients.
23:45 The trade-off involving premium prices in this new proposal.
26:13 “We’re not talking astoundingly large amounts of money.”
26:46 Why PBMs and health plans are against this proposal.
27:37 Why Pharma is for this.
29:11 The perverse incentives for health plans.
31:00 The benefit of Part D.
31:46 The advantage of huge rebates.

healthcare,pharma,pbm,avalere health,drug rebates,hhs,
|

Episode Support Provided By

Special Thanks to Our 2026 Sustaining Monthly Donors

Kimberly CarlesonDylan YahnBenjamin LightMatt McQuideAnn KempskiSpencer AllenScott TromanhauserMarilyn BartlettSteven ElkinsMatthew Bunte.

Recent Episodes

EP505: The Death of the "What Is Value" Guessing Game for Clinical and Plan Decision-Makers Ready to Move On, With Ahilan Sivaganesan, MD
Relentless Health ValueApril 02, 2026
505
44:0240.31 MB

EP505: The Death of the "What Is Value" Guessing Game for Clinical and Plan Decision-Makers Ready to Move On, With Ahilan Sivaganesan, MD

Listen On Your Favorite App Hello, Relentless Tribe. Thank you so much for showing up today. All right … to start, let me lay out the goal of the episode today. This episode is for you if you are a self-funded employer looking to ensure your members are steered and tiered to real high-value care and...

EP504: A Back-to-Basics Roadmap Through the Perverse Incentives to Advanced Primary Care, With Ryan Jacobs
Relentless Health ValueMarch 26, 2026
504
33:3630.76 MB

EP504: A Back-to-Basics Roadmap Through the Perverse Incentives to Advanced Primary Care, With Ryan Jacobs

Listen On Your Favorite App It's been a while since we started from the beginning, so let's just take stock of the basics in this show, refresh ourselves if you're a longtime listener, or welcome if you're new around here. Today we are digging on and about what I would call the poster child for prov...

INBW46: Relentless Tribe Goings-On With Insights to Outwit the Hot Mess of the Non-Healthcare Market
Relentless Health ValueMarch 19, 202619:3717.96 MB

INBW46: Relentless Tribe Goings-On With Insights to Outwit the Hot Mess of the Non-Healthcare Market

Listen On Your Favorite App This inbetweenisode I wanna try something new for two reasons. One of them is that I need to check this episode off my to-do list because I am crushed for time. I'm going to be headed to Arizona tomorrow for the Collective Health Conference , which will have occurred thre...

EP503: Let's Go From Lazy PPO Networks to Smart Collaboration With Direct-to-Employer Specialty Care, With Ryan Wells; Leo Spector, MD, MBA; and Adam Stavisky
Relentless Health ValueMarch 12, 2026
503
46:1642.35 MB

EP503: Let's Go From Lazy PPO Networks to Smart Collaboration With Direct-to-Employer Specialty Care, With Ryan Wells; Leo Spector, MD, MBA; and Adam Stavisky

Listen On Your Favorite App Today we are digging into something I've said probably way too often: Collaboration is the next breakthrough innovation. And I'm doubling down on this because in the current healthcare landscape, two parties that actually should be talking—like burning up the phone wires ...

EP502: How Some Pretty Wild Medicare Fraud Sabotages ACOs and Also Independent Practices and Could Cost Plan Sponsors Such as Self-insured Employers a Lot of Zeros Downstream, With Brian Machut
Relentless Health ValueMarch 05, 2026
502
38:5835.67 MB

EP502: How Some Pretty Wild Medicare Fraud Sabotages ACOs and Also Independent Practices and Could Cost Plan Sponsors Such as Self-insured Employers a Lot of Zeros Downstream, With Brian Machut

You know, I always kind of wondered what the hackers were doing with all of the medical data that they've managed to get their mitts on over the past, I don't know, however many years. Now, I know at least one thing. If you're a hacker, you can use your stolen medical data to not actually send wildl...

EP501: Speaking of Infusions, Do You Want to Pay $135 or Do You Want to Pay $13,560 for the Exact Same Drug? With Ivana Krajcinovic, PhD
Relentless Health ValueFebruary 26, 2026
501
39:5736.57 MB

EP501: Speaking of Infusions, Do You Want to Pay $135 or Do You Want to Pay $13,560 for the Exact Same Drug? With Ivana Krajcinovic, PhD

Let us chat about today the inches all around us and also about how there is no market in healthcare all at once in this show. Today I am talking with Ivana Krajcinovic. And let me give you some examples of the inches. Two members of a plan get infusions at a hospital. And if these two members had g...

Take Two: EP398: Why Are Commercial Carrier Marketplaces Completely Boring? Maybe Because There Isn't a Marketplace, With Jacob Asher, MD
Relentless Health ValueFebruary 19, 202634:5231.91 MB

Take Two: EP398: Why Are Commercial Carrier Marketplaces Completely Boring? Maybe Because There Isn't a Marketplace, With Jacob Asher, MD

We have been doing a little series called "The Inches Are All Around Us," digging out waste in the $5.6 trillion healthcare sector where half an inch of waste can equal billions of dollars. I'm going to right now introduce another series that is complementary but has a slightly different focus. And ...

Listen and Follow

Sponsored by Aventria Health Group
©2026 BD Bridges LLC. All Rights Reserved.